extrabiblical sources attesting to the existence of jesus
By diana on Aug 15, 2010 | In the atheist files
strobel chapter 4. this is a good starting place for determining the reliability of the gospels.
This was inspired by Chapter 4 of The Case for Christ, by Lee Strobel. Chapter 4 is "The Corroborating Evidence: Is There Credible Evidence for Jesus Outside his Biographies?"* In this chapter, his scholar of choice (Edwin Yamauchi, PhD) provides an overview of specific passages in the works of Josephus, Tacitus, Pliny the Younger, and Thallus, who presumably confirmed the darkness at Jesus' death. I'd like to take a closer look at these.
* What Strobel means is "outside of the gospels," but he doesn't miss an opportunity to stack the deck. Besides...he thinks he has made the case that the gospels are reliable biographies in his first chapter.
Keep in mind that one of the problems of scholarship about the true origins of Christianity is that all of the sources which come to us were copied by monks--the literate class--and thus have not necessarily been handled and "preserved" without interpolation. This doesn't mean that anything was interpolated or forged, of course, but it does introduce reasonable doubt to the proceedings.
First, Strobel misrepresents the atheist argument. He quotes from a fictional book: "There isn't a single word about [Jesus] in secular history," and asks Yamauchi to respond. As it stands, this is a laughably absurd assertion. The actual argument is this (and it is not addressed or even broached by Strobel): We have no contemporary accounts of Jesus. Considering the number of people who were said to witness his miracles, his being mixed up with the Jewish leaders and at odds with the Romans, and the fact that he was said to have risen from the dead...and the number of professional historians of the time (one of whom, Philo of Alexandria, specialized in religions and was in Jerusalem at the time), this may be an argument from silence, but it's an ear-splitting silence--particularly considering what Jesus is said to have done.
OK. Always, and forever, we have...the argument from Josephus, who wrote The Antiquities of the Jews. Josephus was born in 37 CE, which already means that what he was reporting was not from his own experience and more than likely not from "eyewitness accounts," but rather from hearsay. The most popular passage, hands down, is the Testimonium Flavianum. To wit:
Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man; for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ. And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
Looks pretty cut and dried, huh?
It isn't. To Strobel and Yamauchi's credit, they admit that most scholars do not consider the entire passage authentic. (Strobel phrases it another way, though: Most scholars believe that "the passage as a whole is authentic, although there may be some interpolations" (79), which says the same thing, but...not really ;).)
Josephus lived and died as a Jew. As such, I cannot swallow that he'd have written that Jesus "was the Christ," which means "the messiah." Also, if he believed Jesus appeared to his apostles again the third day, why did Josephus remain a Jew until he died? And Jesus did "ten thousand other wonderful things"? It doesn't add up. (Again, to Yamauchi's credit, he concedes these points.)
Not to his credit is that he doesn't mention any of the other arguments against the authenticity of this passage (but then, he is Strobel's "witness," in the sense of a court of law; Strobel doesn't want him to say anything that might hurt his case).
First is the problem--considerable, in my opinion--that this passage was never quoted until Eusebius cited it in the 4th Century. Eusebius has, you might say, a reputation (of which Yamauchi has to be well aware). He believed that lying in the interest of saving souls was a good thing; this is called "pious fraud." He even wrote a couple of times suggesting and defending this practice. It's quite unusual that no one, in the interest of Christian apologetics or defense (and there was a plethora of them in the first century; despite what you may have been told, even the first Christians had to defend their belief), ever referenced this obvious PROOF that Jesus did indeed live and die then rise again the third day. Yes, this is an argument from silence, in part, but sometimes, the silence should be listened to. Think about it: Do you find it plausible that in the centuries of persecution and ridicule for their "fantastic" beliefs, no Christian ever pointed to Josephus and say, "There! See?" This combined with Eusibius' reputation makes the entire passage difficult to swallow, in my opinion.
Also, when scholars acknowledge that portions of a passage were clearly interpolated, I'm particularly skeptical about their reasons for accepting the passage in general, but without the obvious interpolations. Some say that the grammar was common to Josephus; others say it wasn't. It's usually pointed out that the passage breaks the flow of the narrative, but it is generally acknowledged that Josephus did this from time to time, anyway. I find it curious that the lesser known (and generally acknowledged to be more authentic) reference to Jesus in Josephus* was quoted by Origen several times (2nd to 3rd C.), while the Testimonium Flavianum didn't show up until Eusebius.
* About the death of James, the brother of Jesus. This one is argued both ways, but there's no reason to assume it is inauthentic in its entirety.
So what does that leave us with? If we clip the obviously interpolated bits, we have this: Jesus, the brother of James, was a wise man who did wonderful works*; Pilate condemned him to crucifixion, and Christians are people who are named after him.
* Miracles and miracle workers were incredibly common in the first century.
Basically, there's a brief explanation about a cult which developed in the wake of a man named Jesus. And all of this, incidentally, is hearsay. Josephus is merely reporting what others seem to believe.
Also, keep in mind that "And the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day" makes much more sense if it had been written in the 4th C. than it would have in the first. ;)
And before I go farther, you should understand that the problem of hearsay in ancient historical accounts troubles me a great deal. History was very different then. I mean, the facts were preserved arm-in-arm with theories and supernatural beliefs, without any real qualification. Consider how Holinshed's History of Scotland, written in the 16th C., presents the "history" of Macbeth (which is how I came to read some of it). The bit about the witches and fortune telling is in the history. So when I read ancient history, like that of Josephus, I reasonably doubt the truth of the claims (unless authenticated by one or more disinterested sources, taking bias into account), and I certainly doubt the truth of supernatural claims.
This is worth remembering: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. In the case of Jesus, what comes to us is admittedly not contemporary OR reliable concerning the facts*; it is reliable only as far as reporting what people believed. None of the secular--not contemporary--accounts we have of Jesus provide anything more than hearsay, including Tacitus.
* Even the letters of Paul, which are our earliest records of Jesus, are admittedly written by a man who acknowledges he never met Jesus. He's merely preaching what he's been told--pretty much like preachers of today. He had a vision which converted him, but then, I have a couple of friends who experienced dramatic conversions in the last ten years (one of them to Islam), so I don't put much store by visions.
Tacitus is interesting, in that he had access to Roman records. However, his commentary about Jesus strongly suggests that his information did not come from the official records. First, he refers to Jesus as "Christ," which was not his name, but a title. We can reasonably expect the Romans would have listed him as Jesus. Tacitus also gets Pilate's office wrong: Pilate was a prefect, not a procurator.*
* I had this discussion with jpholding. He argued that Tacitus was a highly reliable historian and that this detail was "wrong" because his readers were unfamilar with the office of prefect, so he called Pilate a procurator. When I pointed out that Tacitus used the term prefect several other times in his annals, holding pretended I'd not made the point at all.
Thallus' text, which presumably provides pagan authentication of the darkness at Jesus' death, is not extant. We know of it only by virtue of a 3rd C. writer who referenced it. It is problematic in that we do not know what Thallus said, exactly (it's likely he was repeating Christian belief, as belief was generally understood to not differ from actual events), and it's extremely odd that such an unprecedented solar disturbance would not be widely reported by the people of the first century or before, as they were quite fixated upon the heavens and astrology.
And then there is Pliny the Younger, who wrote to Trajan asking what to do with the Christians. This is not testament to Jesus' existence, let alone divinity. It is, instead, confirmation that Pliny was dealing with a new cult and didn't quite know how to handle it.
Again...there are no contemporary accounts of Jesus, which I consider most amazing, considering what is claimed of him. If nothing else, we should find writings from the Jews when he threw the moneychangers out of the temple, or flummoxed the rabbis, or flauted their laws. But this is a person who was said to cure lifelong illnesses, raise people (and himself!) from the dead (which begs the question...if you're dead, how can you do anything?), and walk on water. He worked miracles in front of multitudes, as we are told in the bible. But when it comes to extrabiblical sources, we find...bupkis.
Why is that? If he were an ordinary man, we would expect to find nothing (same as if he never existed at all). But according to the claims of Christians, he was anything but ordinary, and multitudes of people witnessed his miracles. But we have nothing. Perhaps the absence of any historical corroboration is part of God's plan, but really...that's a crappy plan, because one of the tenents of Christianity is the firm belief that Jesus was god on earth, who lived, died, and rose again for our sins. In other words, Christianity depends upon the conviction that the stories are more than myth, but are real.
So it seems like quite an oversight on God's part to give us no reason to believe any of it happened.
d
7 comments
Interesting, Diana. You make a good case. I’m sure that I am like many people, just taking everything for granted, and that the Bible is true. Keep writing what you believe (or don’t believe, as the case may be). I will be reading and thinking.
Thanks, Aunt Bann.
I will occasionally trip back into non-contentious topics, but I feel that this book deserves a response. I don’t think it makes good arguments, but it (1) is a very popular Christian apologetic work, and (2) Daddy asked me to read it.
I admire the skill with which Strobel has wrought this work. It’s admirable. He is a skilled writer. He knows how to get the attention and interest of his audience, he knows who his audience is, and he knows exactly what to tell them.
Also, I appreciate that he’s introducing so many of these questions to Christians. I think most Christians don’t know anything about, say, contemporary writing about Jesus, or the extrabiblical sources apologists produce to defend their faith. What I don’t like is how Strobel so obviously tips the scales in his favor. He acknowledges problems with the most commonly cited texts (and really, Josephus and Tacitus are the two biggest ones), but he only cites the problems he has an answer to (but then…he’s acting as a defense attorney, and the job of a defense attorney is not to find the truth, but to defend his client; to do that, the attorney must choose his “truths” carefully).
What we end up with, though, are millions of Christians who’ve never delved into the questions Strobel produces, but who are happy to accept his information as it APPEARS to be pretty thorough. It isn’t.
Does he mention Porphyry anywhere in the book? I doubt it, but I’m still reading.
Love you!
d
WOW. I’m probably way out of my league here, but there are a couple of things I’d humbly like to point out.
If we see history from this point of view, we are to believe none of it. None of the ancients can be really trusted. We can analyze what they say and get hints for higher or lower probabilities, but no certainties. Yet humanity has believed ancient accounts for two millenia. Maybe history is the oldest of myths! On the subject, if you haven’t read Julian Barnes’s ‘A history of the world in 10 1/2 chapters’, I recommend it. He addresses this issue in some amazingly written fiction. Even if you don’t see the point, you’ll enjoy it, I assure you!
On a different matter, I don’t really think the important part of the gospels is whether it was dark or not when Jesus died, whether he walked on water or not, whether his name was Jesus. The literary styles used to write these books were chosen thinking about an audience, and trying to fit a style that was used at the time. Even at the point where I am, neither in or out of Christianity, trying to figure out where *I* stand, I still believe that the gospels were written to send a message, and they were written in such a way because it was considered the most effective way to send that message to more people.
Of course, a handful of basic facts need to be true if the message (and Christianity) is to make any sense: Jesus, with this name or another, existed. He was sent by god and did things that were considered extraordinary. As far as I’m concerned, they might not have been miracles even: maybe he knew medicine that the Jews ignored, and found miraculous.
My point (despite being this inarticulate) is that when reading the gospels, one must look at the message behind the facts. Whether he in fact kicked the moneychangers out of the temple or not, the message behind that story is that the temple should be respected as a sacred place. If you read the bible as a history book, I agree with you: it’s disappointingly inaccurate.
I hope I was clear, even though my English is not as good, and I can’t quote any big names in my response… This has been enlightening :)
Wow. I typed an entire response to your post yesterday, Mila. I don’t know what happened to it. Dang it. :(
Will begin again…
If we see history from this point of view, we are to believe none of it. None of the ancients can be really trusted. We can analyze what they say and get hints for higher or lower probabilities, but no certainties.
Absolutely! I went into this in more depth on the thread I linked to previously (in particular, posts 10 and 12).
I have a disclaimer here: I do have a master’s degree in history, but it is not as specialized as credentialed historians. So…I have some training in history, but it isn’t as thorough as I’d like, so I supplement my training with ongoing readings in the subject for pleasure. This is just to say that I have some basis for my assertions, but I am by no means an expert.
Yet humanity has believed ancient accounts for two millenia.
Well, yes and no. We believe what we are told until new information comes to light and we have reason to rethink our assumptions and conclusions. Take Jericho, for example.
Maybe history is the oldest of myths!
Some of it certainly is. Even in American History, which isn’t that old as far as history goes, we have a plethora of myths that historians are still trying to squelch. Myths are admittedly fun stories; they appeal to the fantastic, and usually teach us something about ourselves and encourage us to be better people. It is no surprise that they are so pernicious. :)
On the subject, if you haven’t read Julian Barnes’s ‘A history of the world in 10 1/2 chapters’, I recommend it. He addresses this issue in some amazingly written fiction. Even if you don’t see the point, you’ll enjoy it, I assure you!
I have heard of this book, and would LOVE to read it! Thanks for the reminder.
On a different matter, I don’t really think the important part of the gospels is whether it was dark or not when Jesus died, whether he walked on water or not, whether his name was Jesus.
Fair enough. However, many American Christians find these details VERY important, as they are literalists and inerrantists. (If they didn’t consider them important, there would be no need for Strobel to argue for their truth.)
I find myself frequently explaining this to my non-American friends. :) The religious climate here is very different from what you know.
The literary styles used to write these books were chosen thinking about an audience, and trying to fit a style that was used at the time. Even at the point where I am, neither in or out of Christianity, trying to figure out where *I* stand, I still believe that the gospels were written to send a message, and they were written in such a way because it was considered the most effective way to send that message to more people.
I agree completely. On all points. This is part of my ongoing fascination with the bible, I think.
Of course, a handful of basic facts need to be true if the message (and Christianity) is to make any sense…
Why? The messages of other myths is not altered because we understand them to be myths, are they?
And no worries…you’re quite articulate. Had you not mentioned that English is not your first language, I wouldn’t know. :)
d
Of course, a handful of basic facts need to be true if the message (and Christianity) is to make any sense…
Why? The messages of other myths is not altered because we understand them to be myths, are they?
What I meant here is that even christians who find, like me, that the bible should not be read as a history book, still believe that there are some fundamental facts that are not mere “details", and that are, in fact, historical. One such fact would be the existence of Jesus and his filial relationship with god.
Right. I’m asking why you think that has to be literally true, as in historically true in this dimension (if that helps). I know Christians tend to believe that and interpret Paul’s words to mean that, but I don’t see why it needs to be true for the sake of Christianity.
One other problem I have with it is how you know which bits are true and which are not if you slice so much of it out.
Thanks!
d
I think that’s where you reach the ‘faith’ terrain. The existence of god (and his son) itself cannot be factually proved 100%. But they have to believe it, or they would contradict themselves. Imagine someone who calls him/herself a christian, saying something like ‘I don’t think what it says in the bible about Jesus existing is true at all’. This person would make no sense, at all.
About where to draw the line… I took a course on that years ago, of which, of course, I remember nothing (I should still have my notes though…). But there are experts on the bible who study the many literary genres used in it through the centuries, and the times and places in which they were used, who can probably answer that with more precision, but again, with no certainty. It all leaves us where you started: evidence is just not enough.
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