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6 comments

Comment from: Hinermad
Hinermad

Diana,

An excellent paper. I can see a lot of protestant characteristics in these people’s beliefs and practices.

I wonder - did the Waldensians try to encourage the Church at large to “mend its ways,” or were they content to practice what they believed by themselves? If the latter, maybe that’s why they’re not considered Protestants or Reformers.

Dave

12/13/05 @ 07:50
Comment from:

I think they did, Dave. The founder considered himself orthodox until he died. Most of them continued to consider themselves Catholic, and they openly debated with Church apologists. After a century or two, when the split occurred, some returned to Mother Church and the rest accepted their excommunication and continued to preach and believe as they did. I’d say they had all grounds covered: they attemped reformation within and reformation without both.

But apparently, there’s more to being a Protestant. ;)

d

12/14/05 @ 20:35
Comment from: Hinermad
Hinermad

Diana,

More than the capital P, you mean? (Grin)

I get this funny feeling that the difference is more academic than religious. Like a historian somewhere drew a line in the sands of time and said “Everybody over here is a Protestant; everybody over there is a heretic.” And then the usage stuck until somebody else noticed the lack of a difference and called everybody over there proto-Protestants.

One difference I did note is that the Waldensians were unlettered and not actually clergy in the Church’s eyes. Martin Luther, on the other hand, was university educated and ordained as a priest. Maybe that gave him and the others enough credibility to warrant a capitalized label.

Or maybe I should quit theorizing so late at night. (Grin)

Dave

12/14/05 @ 23:16
Comment from:

But they’re such interesting theories. :)

I think the “sands of time” illustration is dead on. While Calvin was educated, he was never ordained. The Anabaptists were followers of some educated men who were never ordained, either.

Ah…but they came after the elusive line drawn in the sand, didn’t they? ;)

d

12/15/05 @ 06:52
Comment from: Hinermad
Hinermad

Diana,

This is true. Maybe education was the deciding factor. Since historians tend to be educated themselves, maybe it was easier for them to dismiss the laity’s alternative beliefs as heresy. But when another educated person holds the same beliefs, they hold more weight.

I guess the test would be to see if any highly educated clergy before Luther showed Protestant tendencies. (Yeesh, that sounds like I’m on a witch hunt. (Grin))

Dave

12/15/05 @ 07:42
Comment from: Hinermad
Hinermad

Diana and faithful readers,

In this holiday season, I hope your family and friends are close. They deserve a hug.

Merry Christmas!

Dave

12/24/05 @ 18:25