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4 comments

Comment from: Daddy [Visitor]
Daddy

PD, I can’t even /think/ 600 wpm. The fact that they can /say/ them, whether or not you can understand them, should give them some sort of heads up. I was called on, several years ago, to judge speeches for hs students, in a regional (I think) contest at Angelina College. They used Toastmaster forms for judgeing, so I was familiar with them (they–the organizers– thought they had come up with the forms all by themselves, and indeed had their own logo,etc, at the top of the page), but some of the judges couldn’t get the idea that they were to keep the scores in the B to A range. If you remember the forms, I think you will see it is a form of the rubrics you use to grade papers. you can only count off so much for certain areas–such as content. The problem was, many of the judges were non-TMs, thus had no trainging in the forms. Alas, for the contestants. I am sure they may have been somewhat mishandled by those who were chosen to measure their success. Interesting stuff you are doing there, Cap.

04/23/07 @ 20:43
Comment from: [Member]

Yes…it is interesting, indeed. I kept almost all the grades in the A to B range, I’m happy to say. I dropped only a couple below that, for stuff like overshooting the time limit, expressing ideas vaguely when the other contestants were specific and clear, and (egads!) failing to repeat thesis and main points regularly. The latter is particularly annoying, as it leaves me swimming in a morass of details without any point to cling to.

Due to some vicarious Toastmaster experience through you, much writing experience, and briefing training (like a speech, except with Powerpoint slides), I’m fairly confident in my ability to judge speeches. Additionally, I took a Performance of Literature (called “interp” on the circuit) at UNCW, so I know what to look and listen for there (and that I’m not good at it). For all of these, I’m a reasonably competent layman judge.

It’s the LDs that kill me. All I can do is be as fair as I can with what I do understand. All I was really clear on was that I must judge the round based on the information presented without inserting my opinion of whether I agreed with any given position. For example, I listened to an aff case for “kite sails” for ships to reduce marine use of fossil fuels. The neg was (obviously) unprepared for such an off-the-wall plan and thus had no cards to refute it. He fell back on some very weak standard arguments (such as definitions of terms in an attempt to prove the suggestion didn’t fit the requirement of the resolution), but they were pitiful arguments. Even though I think the idea of “kite sails” is laughable, I had to vote aff, because I feel strongly that “C’mon! We’re talking about dragging a ship with a kite!” wasn’t a very good comeback. In my comments, I wrote, “While I agree that the proposed plan is silly, you need to do more than say it’s silly if you want to disprove it.” I quickly came to view “topicality” arguments as smoke and mirrors to distract from the fact that clearly, the neg hadn’t researched the proposition in question and had no real information to argue the actual case with. (A “topicality” argument essentially argues that the proposal in question doesn’t meet the requirements of either the resolution itself or the debate format. For example, if the neg can prove the problems being solved have no inherency–that is, that they will solve themselves if left alone–the aff case crumbles. Most of the time, topicality arguments are battling definitions and interpretations, though. All of these such arguments I saw, I voted aff.)

I can see the benefits of debate training and competition–the kids research a great deal about the subject of the year and learn to think critically–but I see a lot of basic sophistry, as well. I suppose knowing how to use sophist methods is in itself beneficial, though: you learn to spot them and you’re all set if you ever decide to go into politics.

Come to think of it, many of the arguments I heard were not unlike an infamous case in which a person of high reknown attempted to obfuscate the issues by arguing the definition of “is.”

I’ll bet debate is where he learned it. Pity he didn’t learn at the same time that people aren’t fooled by such stupidity. They see it for what it is: an attempt to distract the audience from the real issue.

d

04/23/07 @ 21:42
Comment from: Hinermad [Visitor]
Hinermad

Diana,

Wait a minute - did I just see you say you’re going to give your kids a formula? (Grin)

Dave

04/24/07 @ 23:52
Comment from: [Member]

I’ve BEEN doing so, Dave. :) More on that in the next post, which I plan to write after dinner tonight.

I’ve been thinking…and that means it’s time to post again.

d

04/25/07 @ 18:47


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