The whole thing was well spoken, rwahrens, but this part struck me as particularly poignant. Yes. Absolutely.

Welcome to my page. :)

d

Sorry I’m a bit late to the party, but I just linked in here this morning.

I totally agree with you on the “choose” to believe thing. I think of it like this:

I don’t choose to believe that democracy is the best political system I’ve studied - I believe it because I’ve studied them all and the evidence leads me to that conclusion.

I don’t believe in god because I’ve not seen enough evidence that he exists, and the bible has nothing in the way of evidence to that affect either. I am not persuaded by the evidence, rather, I am persuaded by the evidence that christianity is as fake as any other religion.

I don’t choose to believe, but am persuaded by the evidence so that I am convinced of a particular conclusion.

I may choose to examine a subject, and will choose the evidence to study, yes. But belief is the result of being persuaded by what I see, hear, touch, etc. If I believe on the basis of what I am told, then I do so by being persuaded by the credentials of the person I am listening to. That kind of belief is always more subject to re-evaluation than the former.

I cannot CHOOSE to believe something, unless, like another poster here said, I willfully allow myself to ignore a lack of evidence or indeed, any evidence at all.

By so doing, however, I forfeit the right to defend that belief, as I have nothing with which to defend it but gullibility and a lack of knowledge.

My conversion to atheism is rather recent - just a couple or three years ago. I actually realized that I was not a believer when I read an essay by Sam Harris and saw with a start that I actually agreed with everything he had written!

Not an “aha” moment at all, really, but an awakening to a dimly recognized reality.

While I agree with Kathy G, my experiences have been different. I guess different friends and different environments. I too have had the occasional person ask if I had found my personal savior (and I don’t think they meant my lusting after Colin Firth) but it has been extremely rare. It does depend on geography and socio-economic stuff.

It is a little scary that our Prime Minister of Canada belongs to an evangelical religion but we hope that is a temporary glitch.

The Baptist minister who was the premier (similar to governor) of our province growing up channeled his faith into social action, instituting the first universal medicare in North America and working on poverty issues like unemployment insurance, adequate welfare,and universal old age pension so it was more left wing liberation theology than a justification for right wing attitudes and repression.

L.

I appreciate the heads up on Canada, too. I’ve tossed around the idea of immigration a time or two…. Now I know I’d need to do my homework first. :(

d

You go girl! I wish I had your thorough knowledge of the Bible (so I could argue as well as you do), but, every time I tried to read it, I was so bored I couldn’t get though more than a book or two. Too much like poetry for me.

At the risk of bursting a bubble, I have to inform you that Canadian attitudes about religion vary with the region one is in. East of the Rockies, in southern Alberta and Saskatchewan at least, is _our_ Bible Belt. Both provinces have had ministers for premiers – one even had a long-running radio show ("Back to the Bible Hour"), which he continued while in office, that was in turn continued by his political successor (for the 25 years he was in office, plus 21 years more). I’ve been witnessed to more times than I can count. My oldest friend told me just a few years ago, “Kathy, you ARE a Christian, you just haven’t realized it yet.”

Anyhow, my point (before I wandered off on a tangent) is that, in many ways, you are my hero.

Kathy
your fanGirl

You’ve got more patience than me. I tend to speak to the few fundies I do know like a teacher explaining something to an amusingly deluded 4-year-old, but only when the topic of religion comes up. I can’t help myself. Humorous derision is all I can muster.

Thank you for your thoughts.

d